Hi guys, i'm a Malaysian Christian, i reasonly heard a disturbing news in my country, a pastor go through a trans sexual surgery to change his sex to a woman and married another chrisitan man.
This transexual pastor now quit his full time job as pastor and open a direct sell company and bring thousands of people work under him to Christ.
My question is: Can we conclude this pastor as a homosexual? If so why God use him? If God agree with this pastor's act, should'nt God need to appologise for Sodom & Gamorath? If God cannot contredict himself, is this the act af devil, trying to confuse Christian?
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@kenny kong about animals being gay and lesbian...
there are instances where animals have presented and participated in homosexual activity. But scientifically to prove or show that they make a conscience choice to get involved in a homosexual relationship is to be scene. I don't think that animals get into any true "relationship" as we as humans do. We were created a little lower than angels and higher than animals (so the scripture points out). Humans have the right and privilege to reproduce, marry, and free will. This when God allowed man to have free will he allowed for man to choose sin. Animals are not that way. They have a spirit (a life force) but no soul (a life conscience). So inevitably they cannot sin, they only act on impulse and re-act so stimulus. Humans go further and act on intellect and react on emotion. So to compare humans to animals in this sense would be like asking the question why didn't "Captian Kirk draw his lightsaber to fight off Khan when he attacked Tatooine." Its a question but has no validity because the characters, objects, and events have no relevance to each other.
--but that is my never to be humble opinion.
---but i would like to hear the forums thoughts?
If he is or is not a homosexual what is the point? the practice of homosexuality is a sin just the same as over eating, lying, masturbating to internet porn, kicking your next door neighbor in the nads and cheating on your final exams. They all sins in Gods eyes. He clearly tells us what (and what not to do). Where we as humans make the critical error is that we want to pass judgement on what actions are worse. God is direct in that the ultimate penalty for sin is DEATH. (with that out of the a way now I can go on). The transsexual like any other one of us is confused in his/her role in the body of Christ. The devil does and continues to confuse the body of Christ. Here is Lucifer's plan... get the believers all hyped up so that they point the finger at the transsexual pastor, make them hate the transsexual because as long as the heat is on his/her sin the pressure if off of yours, make the believer criticize the transsexual, make the believer inevitably hate the body of Christ. Hmmm. sound familiar? How do we beat Satan? We love the transsexual. We embrace him. He show him the love that Christ would. We invite him into our lives and live out the Christ's plan. Remember if you take away your enemy's ammunition, he cant hurt you. No matter how big, bad and diabolical his weapon of choice is.
Being religious and pious is very easy. Being a loving, devoted follower and believer in Christ is hard. Why else would God put himself in flesh, be spit on, beaten, disrespected, hang on a cross as ransom for our sins? Why? Because he paid a very expensive cost for our sin. Sin debt is EXPENSIVE to pay off. We all need to remember that. All we can do for our part is obedience and love. That may pay a small part of interest for that debt.
You're an interesting guy, Buzz.
Tell you what, when we're in Heaven, you're welcome in my mansion any time!
I still disagree, but hey, that's what makes life interesting, isn't it?
"Why are we saying physical reality is more important that psychological reality? Maybe the mind isn't messed up, maybe it's the body."
Okay. So the man who believes he is a woman trapped in a man's body is right. Fine. Then the man who thinks he is George Washington is right. The man who thinks he is Jesus Christ is right. The man who thinks he is a turnip is right. ...After all, what is the body, anyway?
Further, let's not play favorites here... Psychological reality is not to be denied. So, the man who desires other men is fine. That's how he was born. The man who desires children is fine. That's how he was born. The man who desires (fill in the blank)... well... you know where this is going.
How about this? The man born with a propensity for violence, should we deny him his psychological nature?
Sin is sin. Is that simplistic? Maybe. But is it true? Yep.
And psychological states are much more subjective in nature than physical states. I know a woman- a very good friend- who lived her life as a very militant lesbian from her youth to her adulthood. She was deep in the life, but she was saved. Lived a very church-involved life for many years before meeting a man. She is now happily married going on 5 years now.
Is she denying her true nature, or has God healed a damaged soul?
God is the great healer. To the man who thinks he is a woman, that man can be healed.
And by the way, the term "sex change" is a complete misnomer. There is NO sex change. There is NO trans-gender. What we have is a genetic male who has undergone drastic plastic surgery/physical mutilation, and how must- for the rest of his life- take hormone treatments to repress his physical male characteristics. There is NO female. The male is there, in the genetic core, forced down... but there for sure.
It seems the physical male is permanent. The psychological male can be manipulated.
God wants us to be whole. It's that simple.
But! We disagree. That's cool. Life rolls on.
Peace.
Steve, I'm with you. If God made him a man, he's suppose to be a man! I really doubt this could be debated against, for God doesn't make mistakes. Let's take it to the bible, in Numbers 23:19 it says:
"19 God is not human, that he should lie,
not a human being, that he should change his mind.
Does he speak and then not act?
Does he promise and not fulfill?"
God is perfect, and he creates things as h``e wants them to be. I understand that They are also Children of God, and that we sin also. Modern Society is quick to accept such things as Homosexuality; but we are called to Accept the person, not the sin. Just because they are children of God doesn't mean they aren't wrong in doing such things. See the whole problem sin is going against God's will, and anything that goes against God's will is a sin, if God made him a man, it was God's will for him to be a man, when get's the surgery done to change his sex, he went against God's will for him to be a man, and therefore it's a sin.
"Well, I think there's a crucial difference here: The trans-gender person innately thinks of themselves as belonging to the physically opposite sex; the issue has nothing to do with their preference..."
I'm not sure I see the difference. Sure, a trans-gender person may think of themselves as being part of the opposite sex. They are responding to their thoughts, and feelings. Yes? Not a feeling equivalent to a person saying, "Gee, I think I'll have vanilla instead of chocolate." Or a person who prefers blondes. But rather, a deep impulse, a constant leaning in their souls that goes against the REALITY of their nature.
Now, how this deep soulish preference different from the man who is comfortable being a man but who has a deep seeded leaning towards other men? Or towards children? It's not.
The level of sincerity that these people hold as to the origins or truth of their leanings/preferences doesn't change the nature of it. They may believe they were born that way, but that doesn't mean that is the case. As I said, human sexuality is incredibly complex, and how it is steered depends on how people respond to life events. This explains all the various deviations we see in human sexuality, and if we go down the road to justify one by saying they were born that way, why not justify all?
Yes, a person who has such leanings can be a moral person. Of course, but that would mean they are ignoring their feelings, and doing what is right. (i.e., not deviant)
Yes, their sexual preference is deviant. Deviant from the norm. Preferring blondes isn't deviant, per se, as long as the blonde is of the opposite sex. But if it leads to promiscuity, it is immoral, but not deviant because the attraction is normal- male to female, and vice versa- however, the actions are wrong.
No, deviant is straying from nature, and from God's design and will. To say you are not what you are is deviant. It may not be necessarily demonic- although it may be in cases- and in no way can we equate trans-gender folks as demon possessed. (Oppressed? Maybe. Generally deceived? Absolutely.)
I don't know that i would call them "children of God". Yes, they are made by God, and they are loved by God, but the term "children of" as far as I know, is always equated with believers.
They are sinners, just like you and I. The only difference between us is that we're forgiven.
Human sexuality is a very complex thing. Our sexuality, after all, is one of our deepest, fundamental, and most powerful drives. It only makes sense that being that we are the incredibly complex creatures that we are, relationships, events in our lives, and how we absorb those events can have an effect on how those fundamental drives play themselves out. (Much like a small rudder slowly changing the course of a large ship.)
The argument that a person like this pastor was born this way does not fly. I think people make this argument out of genuine sympathy for this man and the emotional turmoil he has been through. But, tell me... how often do we here the same about, say, pedophiles? "Well, he was just born that way" doesn't go down so smoothly, does it?
I say this, not to be shocking, but to compare one sexual preference that is deviant from the norm (same sex) with another sexual preference that is deviant from the norm (children). Or, use any other deviation if you prefer.
No, God made man to be with woman. He made us spiritually, emotionally, and physically is such a way that one completes the other, and together (and ONLY through this one, specific union) they make the next generation. And I don't believe that He makes mistakes.
People can be damaged in many ways by many things, and how that damage manifests itself will differ from person to person. Add to that an enemy who hates us, and who will exploit such opportunities in any number of ways, and you very easily have a situation where a man can feel he is really a woman inside.
But, I also believe that a God who can speak through a donkey, can hold every particle of the universe in its proper place, and who can, 20 years ago, take a foul-mouthed, carnal kid from the Bronx, forgive him, and give him eternal life... well, I believe a God like that can use whoever He wants for His purposes.
He's good like that.
Peace.
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