When Sin City first came out on the big screen, I was intrigued by the art style, so I did a little research and learned what I could about crime noir comics. What I learned was that it was a breeding ground for sex, violence, drugs, and any other nasty part of society you wanted to throw in there. This bothered me, because I hated that such an interesting genre would have to be so graphically base in it's depictions. So, not to be deterred, I started trying to think of a way to take something Noir-ish and make it Christian.So, my question to all of you is, what elements of a crime noir story would have to be present for it to still be a noir story? Obviously I couldn't have any sex scenes or anything along those lines. Also, obviously, I could simply have the whole thing drawn in black and white. But what would have to be included to make it relevant for the people interested in the genre? What would have to be in it for someone who enjoys reading Sin City to also enjoy reading about a faith-based character? Please share your thoughts.
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I don't know if this topic is still open, but I think it is possible to write such a novel. For example, a cop who is well-experienced and streetwise, but holds to his faith as his bedrock when dealing with life's ills, sort of like Job with a badge perhaps. Satan throws all the ills of Job at him or all the temptations of The Maltese Falcon and he overcomes them, because he has his God to turn to.
So I finally finished a script that I have, for the time being, called Faith Noir. The basic premise is a guy who has spiraled into depression for the murder of his wife, but is revived again by his experiences in investigating her murder. Thanks again for everyone who offered their advice. Keep Soaring.
I really like The Dresden Files, and especially there you see faith take a backseat role. Harry Dresden himself is something of an agnostic - after bearing witness to much tragedy in his early life, he describes himself as "theologically Sweden." But many of the characters surrounding him - ranging from a tough female cop to a knight in shining armor - are in fact Christian and have a tremendous positive impact on the character.
If you ever have any other questions, just let me know. Good luck and God bless you on your journey.
Branson Boykin said:
This helps a lot!! I actually saw a copy of the dresden files the other day and almost bought it. Now I'll be sure to go back and get it. Also, thanks for the other suggested writers. As I've said before, I want to do this right without being cheesy about it. And I agree, you don't need the R-rated elements to tell a good story, even a dark story. Thanks for the encouragement and advice!!
This helps a lot!! I actually saw a copy of the dresden files the other day and almost bought it. Now I'll be sure to go back and get it. Also, thanks for the other suggested writers. As I've said before, I want to do this right without being cheesy about it. And I agree, you don't need the R-rated elements to tell a good story, even a dark story. Thanks for the encouragement and advice!!
Richard Pulfer said:
I think it's very possible - as long as you do enough research - not just about police procedurals, but also about morality. These are both crucial to the genre.
When you look at Sin City, all of the three main protagonists sacrifice themselves for the sake of others - Marv and Hardigan especially. This is an overtly Christian theme. You also have a lot of hard-boiled detectives who live by codes of honor and even have names like "Spenser" and "Marlowe" in homage back to classic works of literature.
But then there's what you mentioned - the sex, the violence, the drugs. I'm a minimalist when it comes to these things. I don't think you need an R-rating to tell a good story. But I do think the darkness these things create is crucial to the atmosphere of film noir. In a lot of ways, the main characters often taken on Christ-like characteristics of being beacons of light in very dark places.
The only misgiving I have about Christian noir is cut-and-dry characters. In noir, your main character can't be Superman(or girl) - physically or spiritually. They can't be immune to the darkness around them. They can struggle quick spectacularly with it, but they have to be at risk to temptation 24/7. A common convention of film noir is the physical temptation usually found in the sultry fem fatale, but there's also other forms of spiritual compromise - like violence and dishonor.
As has been said, do your research. Read great noir writers like Raymond Chandler, Dashiel Hammett and Robert B. Parker. Also check out cross-genre efforts - usually called "neo noir" - like "Brick" (a movie set in high school") and The Dresden Files (a book series about a Chicago wizard for hire.)
Thanks for reading this lengthy post - I hope it helps.
I think it's very possible - as long as you do enough research - not just about police procedurals, but also about morality. These are both crucial to the genre.
When you look at Sin City, all of the three main protagonists sacrifice themselves for the sake of others - Marv and Hardigan especially. This is an overtly Christian theme. You also have a lot of hard-boiled detectives who live by codes of honor and even have names like "Spenser" and "Marlowe" in homage back to classic works of literature.
But then there's what you mentioned - the sex, the violence, the drugs. I'm a minimalist when it comes to these things. I don't think you need an R-rating to tell a good story. But I do think the darkness these things create is crucial to the atmosphere of film noir. In a lot of ways, the main characters often taken on Christ-like characteristics of being beacons of light in very dark places.
The only misgiving I have about Christian noir is cut-and-dry characters. In noir, your main character can't be Superman(or girl) - physically or spiritually. They can't be immune to the darkness around them. They can struggle quick spectacularly with it, but they have to be at risk to temptation 24/7. A common convention of film noir is the physical temptation usually found in the sultry fem fatale, but there's also other forms of spiritual compromise - like violence and dishonor.
As has been said, do your research. Read great noir writers like Raymond Chandler, Dashiel Hammett and Robert B. Parker. Also check out cross-genre efforts - usually called "neo noir" - like "Brick" (a movie set in high school") and The Dresden Files (a book series about a Chicago wizard for hire.)
Thanks for reading this lengthy post - I hope it helps.
No problem. Like I said sounds good and it is different. I don't like cheese in Christian comics too, to me some Christian comics come off watered down, when in fact the bible is brutal and graphic and the diabolical things that had accured can be gruesome, come on eating a chid, thats scary, so then why water a Christian comic? If we believ in God and Jesus and The Holy Spirit and all the gifts and angels we then need to show the darkness and the enemy and all the motives that the devil has for us to fall. My comic is for all, but I am mostly aiming at the unsaved.
Noir is hard enough, add a Christian element in it and boy your going to have your work cut out, but it can be done.
Branson Boykin said:
Charles said:
Characters. Basicly crime noir is that, Crime. You can have a character that is hard riddened and tough, but he has to have a purpose in his life, a life that he feels is empty. Have a love interest and she could be the one who has turned to the Lord and since he has seen so much in his life that he has become cold in his feelings and she tries to minister to him etc. But it all come down to character, well for me that is. That is a good subject to try to work on. Interested. God bless you on this journey. keep me posted on this.
Thanks for the suggestion and encouragement. I was actually thinking of having a love interest be the motivation for change in the main character. Nice to see I'm not alone in my ideas.
Characters. Basicly crime noir is that, Crime. You can have a character that is hard riddened and tough, but he has to have a purpose in his life, a life that he feels is empty. Have a love interest and she could be the one who has turned to the Lord and since he has seen so much in his life that he has become cold in his feelings and she tries to minister to him etc. But it all come down to character, well for me that is. That is a good subject to try to work on. Interested. God bless you on this journey. keep me posted on this.
Thanks for the suggestion and encouragement. I was actually thinking of having a love interest be the motivation for change in the main character. Nice to see I'm not alone in my ideas.
At first, I was all like, 'if this guy likes the style, and does not necessarily care for the narrative components of noir, then why not just appropriate the style and forget the narrative components?' And then I started thinking about what the style detached from the narrative might look like, particularly with a Christian protagonist, and I think you're right - I think that a comic like that really wouldn't flow well. Sometimes style implies certain content, subconsciously and such. It wouldn't appear genuine; I would consider it a parody, or a very cheesy attempt. But that is just my opinion, and it could work for all I know.
If you want to relay a message about why the World needs Christ, you don't necessarily need to laud and trumpet Christianity directly . You could go the other way. You could show the meaninglessness of being in the World. That's what the writer of Ecclesiastes does. He doesn't write poems expressing the wonder and greatness of God. He writes a treatise about the vanity and vapidity of the World. He makes the reader realize his lot in life. It is only through these parenthesis here and there, and these side comments of his, that the reader discovers the author actually has a key to the nihilism around him. You can still have the sex (without showing the nudity perhaps), the drugs, the alcohol, and the moral ambiguity, and depression abounding about like rays from the sun, and you can use it to show just how shallow this generation is, and how it is in need of something authentic.
JUST A THOUGHT!
Cheesiness is exactly what I'm tyring to avoid. I've seen Christian comics with amazing artwork, and then I read the story and groan with how hokey the dialogue is. While it may be entertaining to someone who has already accepted Christ, to the non-believer, they feel like they're reading a comic out of a children's Sunday School book. And the non-believer is really who I'm trying to capture. I want them to read engaging, relevant, entertaining stories that have an element of faith without losing them in the translation.
Thanks for the suggestions, especially the ecclesiates part. that would be a great way of getting the Gospel in without having unrealistic conversations.
At first, I was all like, 'if this guy likes the style, and does not necessarily care for the narrative components of noir, then why not just appropriate the style and forget the narrative components?' And then I started thinking about what the style detached from the narrative might look like, particularly with a Christian protagonist, and I think you're right - I think that a comic like that really wouldn't flow well. Sometimes style implies certain content, subconsciously and such. It wouldn't appear genuine; I would consider it a parody, or a very cheesy attempt. But that is just my opinion, and it could work for all I know.
If you want to relay a message about why the World needs Christ, you don't necessarily need to laud and trumpet Christianity directly . You could go the other way. You could show the meaninglessness of being in the World. That's what the writer of Ecclesiastes does. He doesn't write poems expressing the wonder and greatness of God. He writes a treatise about the vanity and vapidity of the World. He makes the reader realize his lot in life. It is only through these parenthesis here and there, and these side comments of his, that the reader discovers the author actually has a key to the nihilism around him. You can still have the sex (without showing the nudity perhaps), the drugs, the alcohol, and the moral ambiguity, and depression abounding about like rays from the sun, and you can use it to show just how shallow this generation is, and how it is in need of something authentic.
How to Christian police officers deal with the work they are in especially those
who deal with homicide investigation (and other similar violent crime situations)?
Also hardened criminals who have come to Christ and truly repents and changed.
What lead them to the criminal life style and how Christ has made a different in
their lives?
Again do some intense research and base your stories with as much reality as possible
Replies
I don't know if this topic is still open, but I think it is possible to write such a novel. For example, a cop who is well-experienced and streetwise, but holds to his faith as his bedrock when dealing with life's ills, sort of like Job with a badge perhaps. Satan throws all the ills of Job at him or all the temptations of The Maltese Falcon and he overcomes them, because he has his God to turn to.
I really like The Dresden Files, and especially there you see faith take a backseat role. Harry Dresden himself is something of an agnostic - after bearing witness to much tragedy in his early life, he describes himself as "theologically Sweden." But many of the characters surrounding him - ranging from a tough female cop to a knight in shining armor - are in fact Christian and have a tremendous positive impact on the character.
If you ever have any other questions, just let me know. Good luck and God bless you on your journey.
Branson Boykin said:
Richard Pulfer said:
When you look at Sin City, all of the three main protagonists sacrifice themselves for the sake of others - Marv and Hardigan especially. This is an overtly Christian theme. You also have a lot of hard-boiled detectives who live by codes of honor and even have names like "Spenser" and "Marlowe" in homage back to classic works of literature.
But then there's what you mentioned - the sex, the violence, the drugs. I'm a minimalist when it comes to these things. I don't think you need an R-rating to tell a good story. But I do think the darkness these things create is crucial to the atmosphere of film noir. In a lot of ways, the main characters often taken on Christ-like characteristics of being beacons of light in very dark places.
The only misgiving I have about Christian noir is cut-and-dry characters. In noir, your main character can't be Superman(or girl) - physically or spiritually. They can't be immune to the darkness around them. They can struggle quick spectacularly with it, but they have to be at risk to temptation 24/7. A common convention of film noir is the physical temptation usually found in the sultry fem fatale, but there's also other forms of spiritual compromise - like violence and dishonor.
As has been said, do your research. Read great noir writers like Raymond Chandler, Dashiel Hammett and Robert B. Parker. Also check out cross-genre efforts - usually called "neo noir" - like "Brick" (a movie set in high school") and The Dresden Files (a book series about a Chicago wizard for hire.)
Thanks for reading this lengthy post - I hope it helps.
Noir is hard enough, add a Christian element in it and boy your going to have your work cut out, but it can be done.
Branson Boykin said:
Thanks for the suggestion and encouragement. I was actually thinking of having a love interest be the motivation for change in the main character. Nice to see I'm not alone in my ideas.
Cheesiness is exactly what I'm tyring to avoid. I've seen Christian comics with amazing artwork, and then I read the story and groan with how hokey the dialogue is. While it may be entertaining to someone who has already accepted Christ, to the non-believer, they feel like they're reading a comic out of a children's Sunday School book. And the non-believer is really who I'm trying to capture. I want them to read engaging, relevant, entertaining stories that have an element of faith without losing them in the translation.
Thanks for the suggestions, especially the ecclesiates part. that would be a great way of getting the Gospel in without having unrealistic conversations.
If you want to relay a message about why the World needs Christ, you don't necessarily need to laud and trumpet Christianity directly . You could go the other way. You could show the meaninglessness of being in the World. That's what the writer of Ecclesiastes does. He doesn't write poems expressing the wonder and greatness of God. He writes a treatise about the vanity and vapidity of the World. He makes the reader realize his lot in life. It is only through these parenthesis here and there, and these side comments of his, that the reader discovers the author actually has a key to the nihilism around him. You can still have the sex (without showing the nudity perhaps), the drugs, the alcohol, and the moral ambiguity, and depression abounding about like rays from the sun, and you can use it to show just how shallow this generation is, and how it is in need of something authentic.
JUST A THOUGHT!
How to Christian police officers deal with the work they are in especially those
who deal with homicide investigation (and other similar violent crime situations)?
Also hardened criminals who have come to Christ and truly repents and changed.
What lead them to the criminal life style and how Christ has made a different in
their lives?
Again do some intense research and base your stories with as much reality as possible
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