This has always mystified me. I won't name names, but a lot of material that passes as Christian, features art that is boring out of perspective, and lifeless..characters are cookie cutter types, with no gray areas, and sometimes the writing is so elementary that any adult throws it down with disgust,. And yet The Bible is filled with the most powerful, most transcendent., the most scary and thought provoking subject matter on earth.Are Christian artists writers just lazy?. Why do they seem so satisfied with churning out slop and presenting it proudly to the world?Your thoughts.
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I don't know about Laziness, but I agree with Elgin that its that zealousness to jump into something without first thinking out the story and training artistically to handle to book. There are plenty of crappy secular comics as well with junk writers working for the top comic industry books. As a professional artist with DC and Aspen, I do my job to earn a living and love doing it. I would love to work on a "christian" project one day, but so far I haven't been impressed with anything that is of a "christian" theme. its always Angels this, and bibleman that and it never has any grit, or realism to it. Personally, if I wrote a story to be published, I would jsut write a story, and not try to make it "christian". I would write the story I'd like to tell, with as much realism in the characters that I can, and at the end of the day, Im sure there would be plenty of my beliefs that would be present in the book. I've seen some phenominal art come from christian cartoonists and artist in the past, and there will always be a place for it and I've also read amazing stories by Christian authors (Ted Dekker, Stephan Lawhead, CS.Lewis). Anyone ever think of turning Lawhead's Hood books or Arthur books into a series? There are opportunities for some great spiritual comics/graphic novels, but professional writers need to get on board first...and it can't be done for free.
1Corinthians 1:26-29 "For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called, but God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty, and base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are, that no flesh should glory in His presence."
Isn't it ironic that Jack Chick is the most published living author in the entire world (with over 500 million of his tracts sold in many, many languages), yet his drawing is amateurish (I'm not speaking of Fred Carter who is a fine draftsman). However, Jack preaches a straight Gospel message that was born out of much prayer (in his non-controversial, non-conspiratorial tracts) that has been an effectual means for communicating the Word of God.
One other thought: some people are bored with the holy things of God. Our fallen, fleshy nature is not drawn to Him. On the contrary, all of the disciples (except Judas the betrayer) fell asleep when Jesus called them to prayer at a critical hour in the garden of Gethsemane. Peter, James, and John, when they were on the mount of transfiguration, fell asleep when Moses and Elijah appeared in glory, speaking with Jesus of His death which He was to accomplish at Calvary's cross. Even the prophet Daniel fell asleep when in the presence of God, and had to be touched by a holy angel to stand upon his feet in order to receive vital prophecy which has blessed the body of believers worldwide for millennia since.
Some people fall asleep in church while a powerful, God-given Word is going forth, and it's not always a matter of being physically tired---it's our sinful flesh warring against His Spirit. Galatians 5:24 says that "they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." We can only do this by the power of the Holy Spirit. I've seen a lot of people who profess to be Christians, but they're junkies for entertainment, gluttons for food, for (secret) porn, etc. God has called us to so much higher, and so much better.
I agree with you about THE CROSS AND THE SWITCHBLADE movie, and felt that it especially lacked in omitting chapter 21 of the book which deals with the baptism of the Holy Spirit (with the initial evidence of speaking with tongues). Once baptized in the Holy Ghost, Nicky Cruz was freed from heroin addiction, being so God-gripped, and he was used of God to see others obtain this infilling in the early days of Teen Challenge.
I publish Christian graphic novels of my own which have dealt with this topic, and which present the Gospel and compelling testimonies of believers from various cultures and parts of the world, but all born again in Christ, empowered by the Holy Ghost for service, and sent into His kingdom work with remarkable results. These are true, life-changing stories, anointed testimonies which have been my pleasure to illustrate and adapt into comics form. Previously, I've worked for the major secular comics companies as well as for top accounts in the secular book, magazine, and newspaper illustration field, but nothing of that compares to the open door that God has given me through this present work.
I hear what you are saying. These concepts are difficult to transfer, but since we have the mind of Christ, and He WANTS the message to be told, it's my view that he will give us, and he means that literally, THE WORDS TO SAY.Again, since Holy Spirut is doing the drawing of mens hearts, then I don't have to worry about how persuasive I can be.( this is not an excuse to abandon Biblical scholarship, or throw sound doctrine under the bus)
What I am saying is that the creator, not the consumer, is responsible for the content they produce. There are bonfire, genuine, objective rules and methods of writing and storytelling that should not be overlooked, and can be learned.
One secular author, Joeseph Campel did a series on PBS called " The Power Of Myth" that breakdown the elements of story structure, archetypes, and themes, that resonate with every culture. Themes of virgin births, redemption and reconciliation,denial and sacrifice are part of the "heroes journey" , as Campel calls it, and a story rises and falls by how well that Heroes Journey template is used,
You can probably find The Power of Myth broadcasts easily on YouTube, or purchase it from the company, along with the book of the same name.
Another must have book on effective storytelling is HERO WITH A THOUSAND FACES which explores this theme deeper.
These are not light reading, mind you, they're college level material, but well worth the read if you are serious about being a writer.
As for art,there's no excuse forbad drawing period.
The kingdom of God is within. It's a spiritual kingdom. The church is the people with God's Holy Spirit. These are all concepts you can't see--not physically. They will always be difficult to transfer into physical media.
Moreover, I think God planned it so. We live by faith, not by sight. 1 Corinthians 1 says this: Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.
I bring this up because media will always fall short of the simplicity and power of the cross.
Great answers so far, and I understand totally the slope I'm on my saying something is poor quality or not. Someone can easily look at my small body of work, and not be impressed at all and
D pose my own question to ME based on standards they feel I am not meeting.
I agree that lazy was too harsh a word, eager is much more descriptive of the attitude of most creators for sure. I guess my complaint is, even though they pretend to ignore us, "The World" watches our every step, if nothing else, to ridicule us. We want the eyes of the world to be watching and listening to us because they are the mission field father wants us to reach. So many times, we produce thingsFOR Christians, made BY Christians to the point that we create a sort of Christian counter culture.
Our family members tend to applaud and encourage us, whether we trip while dancing on stage, sing a sour note while leading morning worship, or producing a sub par comic, just cause it has. Jesus in it.
Going back to my earlier point about "the world", who we're trying to reach, we MUST be excellent because they are accustomed to nothing less than the best. When Jesus or the apostle Paul ministered, they met people where they were, and that has always been an effective strategy. I also feel we can ask Father God Himself for special gifting and anointing to do the work excellently, to open up doors for distribution, and finance, and for giving us favor,by placing us, who so desire, in front of key industry players to get our work out.
I think this is always a "slipper-slope" kind of discussion, because many people who are producing their creative works are doing so out of pure passion and a drive to use their creative abilities to honor or expand the Kingdom...no matter if their works just reach a selcect few (as in your comments about the Cross & the Switchblade) or the masses. And in the big picture, that's good news not bad...'cause we are all called for a purpose and who are we to judge what that specific purpose is for another, or to whom their work will appeal to?
I think trying to pigeon hole most Christian works as being without merit 'cause they falls short of Marvel/DC level of quality, is to misunderstand what alot of creators are inspired to do. Who is to judge if a given creators work is not simply meant to reach a select group of people within his local congregation or sphere of influence? That's not to say we shouldn't all strive for the best, but only that not all of our works are meant for the shelves of FCS or in Diamond Previews.
Think of it in these terms...are all preacher's speaking styles , messages and presentations up to going national or instructing other pastors/ministers at national conventions? Of course not! The vast majority of ministers reach a finite group of people within the walls of their church or perhaps within their community. Does that mean their efforts should somehow be judged as less valid then those building mega-churches or speaking on nationally televised events?
This last summer I was invited to attend a local church's services on the Sunday before a con. It was a very small venue, had about 40 people attending and the pastor's style was very soft spoken and even gentle...like hearing from your kind-old-grandfather. For me personally it was not very inspiring, nor do I think this gentlemen's destined to lead thousands or go on TV, but it was clear that this rather low-key presentation was the reason those people were there and worshipping with just as much vigor and energy as the church I attend in TX (which has over 5000 members and a very charismatic pastor). This man had a calling and is answering it using what God has gifted him with. Does it matter that his reach might be modest in comparison to other pastors?
Secondly, the fact that many comic creators bring Christian properties to market that might not be up to snuff as far as dynamic script, or professional level artwork goes...is not unquie to our corner of the comic word. As someone who's been in the trenches now for a couple decades (as a retailer as well as publisher and creator) there is never a shortage of comics, graphic novels or webcomics that are (and have been) published each and every month in all types of stories (re: superheroes, action-adventure, horror etc.) that fall short of what I'd call "top level quality" (even things published by Marvel/DC for that matter). It just goes without saying that artists, writers and fanboys who dream of doing a comic many times do so without the benefit of an established publisher or professional editor to rein them in, or stop them from beginning the project to start with...but with an abundance of passion for their creations!
Each and every month I meet artists at conventions who show me their sample pages from a comic they are shopping around. Every now and then there is a diamond among the coal, but most of the time the artists have quite a bit of work to do to get their work up to a professional level. But that being said, many can't see that and take any constructive criticsm very hard. I think it's the nature of being an artist, is that it's hard to judge the level of your own work (present company included).
So, yes, I believe (and have been preaching for years) that the Christian Comic genre needs a big hit, to really open the floodgates to higher quality product. It's simple business. Once someone (or a publisher) proves that there could be a demand for this type of product (dictated by large sales figures) other "larger publishers" will come on board and produce their own product. When that happens some of the very creators you see or read on this network may be brought in and paired with "top flight" artistic and production talent to create the works that will stand toe to toe with the big boys.
Don't kid yourself, it takes lots of capital to create a Marvel/DC level product and get it on the shelves of "most" comic or Christian outlets. There are very few players with that kind of resources...but I'm still a firm believer that it's comin'!
But until then, I personally, take pride in encouraging all my brothers and sisters on this site (and that I meet around the country) to follow your divine inspiration to use your creative talents to honor the Kingdom, whether it's to create a tract to share in your local community, create a webcomic, or do a graphic novel...without necessarily worrying about if your work will reach a national audience or just impact that one person that God intended it to reach!
This has been a conversation that's been floating around within the various topics on this board for a while. I've brought it up more than once.
I don't know if there is an easy answer for this. Here are some of the things that I perceive:
1. The person creating the product is extremely earnest in their faith and wants to get the thing out there as quickly as possible - even if they don't have the talent or training to execute it.
2. Everybody comes up with their variation of Bibleman/Superbook/The Greatest Adventure: Stories from the Bible - but don't think it through. (And then they pull out the purple, brown, beige and green coloring book and create mud.)
3. Perhaps the actual production of the "comic/media" isn't at the top of a Christan's priority list - therefore they give it a second hand afterthought as in: I need to cram "the Message" into a container, and this cool story that I (and every other yahoo) has thought of will be awesome.
I wholeheartedly agree that the packaging and presentation of Christian offerings need to be much better (hence the reason I'm offering Free services to the first 3 people to contact me here at my blog post.
So as to your last statement: Are Christian artists writers just lazy? I think it's not laziness so much as it is over eager zealous message driven people who feel there's a void of content that fits their space - so much so, that they are willing to create it before they're ready - or they gather other eager people, but none of their talents are up to snuff - but they are all eager.
And, then are they proud of it? Some of them might be. Some of them might be on the level, oh man I produced this thing, now I better get it out there, no matter how bad it is.
And then sometimes, just sometimes, God lets the "foolish things of the world confound the wise".
Let me be the first to reply. We all know the movie, The Cross And The Switchblade, starring Pat Boone, as David Wilkerson, and Eric Estrada, as Nikki Cruz. I KNOW the film has resulted in countless conversions over the years, and I praise Holy Spirit for that,
But the film is LAUGHABLE.
What's ironic, is that if you read the BOOK "RUN, BABY, RUN" , which I believe the movie is based on, you will be on the edge of your seat. Parts of it are graphic, violent and horrifying. Nikki Cruz was a Monster, as notorious as any blood or crip as for David Wilkerson, the man is a LION. Tough, uncompromising, and loving. But no wimp.
IMO all respect to Pat Boone,his portrayal of this firey, passionate lion of God, was reduced to a wimp.
And herein lies the problem with most media portrayals of men of faith,
No fire.
No balls.
Even Jesus gets the wimp treatment. You hardly ever see the Jesus who is picking up chairs, kicking over tables, and whipping grown men, like Bruce Lee using nun chucks!
I wrote a spoken word poem on this very subject, entitled, Temple Cleansing by El Prophet The Scribe found on my spoken word poetry site. I will look it up and post it later.
Replies
Isn't it ironic that Jack Chick is the most published living author in the entire world (with over 500 million of his tracts sold in many, many languages), yet his drawing is amateurish (I'm not speaking of Fred Carter who is a fine draftsman). However, Jack preaches a straight Gospel message that was born out of much prayer (in his non-controversial, non-conspiratorial tracts) that has been an effectual means for communicating the Word of God.
One other thought: some people are bored with the holy things of God. Our fallen, fleshy nature is not drawn to Him. On the contrary, all of the disciples (except Judas the betrayer) fell asleep when Jesus called them to prayer at a critical hour in the garden of Gethsemane. Peter, James, and John, when they were on the mount of transfiguration, fell asleep when Moses and Elijah appeared in glory, speaking with Jesus of His death which He was to accomplish at Calvary's cross. Even the prophet Daniel fell asleep when in the presence of God, and had to be touched by a holy angel to stand upon his feet in order to receive vital prophecy which has blessed the body of believers worldwide for millennia since.
Some people fall asleep in church while a powerful, God-given Word is going forth, and it's not always a matter of being physically tired---it's our sinful flesh warring against His Spirit. Galatians 5:24 says that "they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." We can only do this by the power of the Holy Spirit. I've seen a lot of people who profess to be Christians, but they're junkies for entertainment, gluttons for food, for (secret) porn, etc. God has called us to so much higher, and so much better.
I agree with you about THE CROSS AND THE SWITCHBLADE movie, and felt that it especially lacked in omitting chapter 21 of the book which deals with the baptism of the Holy Spirit (with the initial evidence of speaking with tongues). Once baptized in the Holy Ghost, Nicky Cruz was freed from heroin addiction, being so God-gripped, and he was used of God to see others obtain this infilling in the early days of Teen Challenge.
I publish Christian graphic novels of my own which have dealt with this topic, and which present the Gospel and compelling testimonies of believers from various cultures and parts of the world, but all born again in Christ, empowered by the Holy Ghost for service, and sent into His kingdom work with remarkable results. These are true, life-changing stories, anointed testimonies which have been my pleasure to illustrate and adapt into comics form. Previously, I've worked for the major secular comics companies as well as for top accounts in the secular book, magazine, and newspaper illustration field, but nothing of that compares to the open door that God has given me through this present work.
www.calvarycomics.com
Enjoy!
Kind regards in Christ Jesus,
Alec
What I am saying is that the creator, not the consumer, is responsible for the content they produce. There are bonfire, genuine, objective rules and methods of writing and storytelling that should not be overlooked, and can be learned.
One secular author, Joeseph Campel did a series on PBS called " The Power Of Myth" that breakdown the elements of story structure, archetypes, and themes, that resonate with every culture. Themes of virgin births, redemption and reconciliation,denial and sacrifice are part of the "heroes journey" , as Campel calls it, and a story rises and falls by how well that Heroes Journey template is used,
You can probably find The Power of Myth broadcasts easily on YouTube, or purchase it from the company, along with the book of the same name.
Another must have book on effective storytelling is HERO WITH A THOUSAND FACES which explores this theme deeper.
These are not light reading, mind you, they're college level material, but well worth the read if you are serious about being a writer.
As for art,there's no excuse forbad drawing period.
Moreover, I think God planned it so. We live by faith, not by sight. 1 Corinthians 1 says this:
Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.
I bring this up because media will always fall short of the simplicity and power of the cross.
D pose my own question to ME based on standards they feel I am not meeting.
I agree that lazy was too harsh a word, eager is much more descriptive of the attitude of most creators for sure. I guess my complaint is, even though they pretend to ignore us, "The World" watches our every step, if nothing else, to ridicule us. We want the eyes of the world to be watching and listening to us because they are the mission field father wants us to reach. So many times, we produce thingsFOR Christians, made BY Christians to the point that we create a sort of Christian counter culture.
Our family members tend to applaud and encourage us, whether we trip while dancing on stage, sing a sour note while leading morning worship, or producing a sub par comic, just cause it has. Jesus in it.
Going back to my earlier point about "the world", who we're trying to reach, we MUST be excellent because they are accustomed to nothing less than the best. When Jesus or the apostle Paul ministered, they met people where they were, and that has always been an effective strategy. I also feel we can ask Father God Himself for special gifting and anointing to do the work excellently, to open up doors for distribution, and finance, and for giving us favor,by placing us, who so desire, in front of key industry players to get our work out.
I think trying to pigeon hole most Christian works as being without merit 'cause they falls short of Marvel/DC level of quality, is to misunderstand what alot of creators are inspired to do. Who is to judge if a given creators work is not simply meant to reach a select group of people within his local congregation or sphere of influence? That's not to say we shouldn't all strive for the best, but only that not all of our works are meant for the shelves of FCS or in Diamond Previews.
Think of it in these terms...are all preacher's speaking styles , messages and presentations up to going national or instructing other pastors/ministers at national conventions? Of course not! The vast majority of ministers reach a finite group of people within the walls of their church or perhaps within their community. Does that mean their efforts should somehow be judged as less valid then those building mega-churches or speaking on nationally televised events?
This last summer I was invited to attend a local church's services on the Sunday before a con. It was a very small venue, had about 40 people attending and the pastor's style was very soft spoken and even gentle...like hearing from your kind-old-grandfather. For me personally it was not very inspiring, nor do I think this gentlemen's destined to lead thousands or go on TV, but it was clear that this rather low-key presentation was the reason those people were there and worshipping with just as much vigor and energy as the church I attend in TX (which has over 5000 members and a very charismatic pastor). This man had a calling and is answering it using what God has gifted him with. Does it matter that his reach might be modest in comparison to other pastors?
Secondly, the fact that many comic creators bring Christian properties to market that might not be up to snuff as far as dynamic script, or professional level artwork goes...is not unquie to our corner of the comic word. As someone who's been in the trenches now for a couple decades (as a retailer as well as publisher and creator) there is never a shortage of comics, graphic novels or webcomics that are (and have been) published each and every month in all types of stories (re: superheroes, action-adventure, horror etc.) that fall short of what I'd call "top level quality" (even things published by Marvel/DC for that matter). It just goes without saying that artists, writers and fanboys who dream of doing a comic many times do so without the benefit of an established publisher or professional editor to rein them in, or stop them from beginning the project to start with...but with an abundance of passion for their creations!
Each and every month I meet artists at conventions who show me their sample pages from a comic they are shopping around. Every now and then there is a diamond among the coal, but most of the time the artists have quite a bit of work to do to get their work up to a professional level. But that being said, many can't see that and take any constructive criticsm very hard. I think it's the nature of being an artist, is that it's hard to judge the level of your own work (present company included).
So, yes, I believe (and have been preaching for years) that the Christian Comic genre needs a big hit, to really open the floodgates to higher quality product. It's simple business. Once someone (or a publisher) proves that there could be a demand for this type of product (dictated by large sales figures) other "larger publishers" will come on board and produce their own product. When that happens some of the very creators you see or read on this network may be brought in and paired with "top flight" artistic and production talent to create the works that will stand toe to toe with the big boys.
Don't kid yourself, it takes lots of capital to create a Marvel/DC level product and get it on the shelves of "most" comic or Christian outlets. There are very few players with that kind of resources...but I'm still a firm believer that it's comin'!
But until then, I personally, take pride in encouraging all my brothers and sisters on this site (and that I meet around the country) to follow your divine inspiration to use your creative talents to honor the Kingdom, whether it's to create a tract to share in your local community, create a webcomic, or do a graphic novel...without necessarily worrying about if your work will reach a national audience or just impact that one person that God intended it to reach!
Okay...off my soap box!
bob-
www.headpress.info
This has been a conversation that's been floating around within the various topics on this board for a while. I've brought it up more than once.
I don't know if there is an easy answer for this. Here are some of the things that I perceive:
1. The person creating the product is extremely earnest in their faith and wants to get the thing out there as quickly as possible - even if they don't have the talent or training to execute it.
2. Everybody comes up with their variation of Bibleman/Superbook/The Greatest Adventure: Stories from the Bible - but don't think it through. (And then they pull out the purple, brown, beige and green coloring book and create mud.)
3. Perhaps the actual production of the "comic/media" isn't at the top of a Christan's priority list - therefore they give it a second hand afterthought as in: I need to cram "the Message" into a container, and this cool story that I (and every other yahoo) has thought of will be awesome.
I wholeheartedly agree that the packaging and presentation of Christian offerings need to be much better (hence the reason I'm offering Free services to the first 3 people to contact me here at my blog post.
So as to your last statement: Are Christian artists writers just lazy? I think it's not laziness so much as it is over eager zealous message driven people who feel there's a void of content that fits their space - so much so, that they are willing to create it before they're ready - or they gather other eager people, but none of their talents are up to snuff - but they are all eager.
And, then are they proud of it? Some of them might be. Some of them might be on the level, oh man I produced this thing, now I better get it out there, no matter how bad it is.
And then sometimes, just sometimes, God lets the "foolish things of the world confound the wise".
TEMPLE CLEANSING
By EL Prophet The Scribe
I Remember That Day,
I Thought I Was “Trippin!”
Jesus made a Braded Cord,
And Full Grown MEN
He Started WHIPPIN!
They Started To Duck!
But Were Outta Luck!
Messiah Starting Swinging
Like Bruce Lee
Using Nun Chucks!
Doves And Cages
Started Flyin’!
He Overturned Tables!
Hey! I Aint Lyin!!
People “Got Spanked”
Man!! It Was Funny!!
They “Got Outta Dodge” Quick!
And Wuz Droppin’ They Money!
“GET OUT! GET OUT!!”
I Heard Jesus, Say,
“ALL OF YOU MONEYCHANGERS,
YOU ALL GO AWAY!!”
“MY FATHER’S HOUSE, IS A HOUSE
MEANT FOR PRAYER!!”
Then He Reached Right On Over.
And Threw A Few Chairs!
They Bounced, And Then Crashed,
All Right Down The Stairs!!
“PHARISEES, AND SADCUCEES!!
DEN OF VIPERS, YOU BE!!”
But They Didn’t Hear Him,
They Started To Flee!
Those Folks Who Thought Jesus
Was Only, “Nice and Meek”
DEFINITELY Saw Another Side of Messiah THAT Week!
But the film is LAUGHABLE.
What's ironic, is that if you read the BOOK "RUN, BABY, RUN" , which I believe the movie is based on, you will be on the edge of your seat. Parts of it are graphic, violent and horrifying. Nikki Cruz was a Monster, as notorious as any blood or crip as for David Wilkerson, the man is a LION. Tough, uncompromising, and loving. But no wimp.
IMO all respect to Pat Boone,his portrayal of this firey, passionate lion of God, was reduced to a wimp.
And herein lies the problem with most media portrayals of men of faith,
No fire.
No balls.
Even Jesus gets the wimp treatment. You hardly ever see the Jesus who is picking up chairs, kicking over tables, and whipping grown men, like Bruce Lee using nun chucks!
I wrote a spoken word poem on this very subject, entitled, Temple Cleansing by El Prophet The Scribe found on my spoken word poetry site. I will look it up and post it later.
Your thoughts are welcome
Www.elprophetthescribe