This has always mystified me. I won't name names, but a lot of material that passes as Christian, features art that is boring out of perspective, and lifeless..characters are cookie cutter types, with no gray areas, and sometimes the writing is so elementary that any adult throws it down with disgust,. And yet The Bible is filled with the most powerful, most transcendent., the most scary and thought provoking subject matter on earth.Are Christian artists writers just lazy?. Why do they seem so satisfied with churning out slop and presenting it proudly to the world?Your thoughts.

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  • Maybe this is a good time to end this discussion. And start a new one, side I can see, as someone else has pointed out, were on the rails now.

    For the record, having been called COLORED,BLACK, NEGRO, AFRO AMERICAN, AFRICAN AMERICAN, and much worst, I prefer to be called child of God. and to see myself as CHrst sees me who tore down the walls of separation, which includes race and culture. Many native born people of African descent, like to hide behind culture, things of the past including the hurt and pain, that often leads to arrogant pride, feelings of anger and resentment towards native born people of European descent, and ultimately leads to polarization. I don't want to spend the rest of my life, as MJ says, "being a color"(even though he was also obsessed with this). If I am to be known as anything, let me be known as a believer, a born again son of God, whose elder brother is Christ. That's the only thing that will have any lasting value in the end.
  • But still begs the question: What do you call a person from Africa? African? But what if you're a white African? Or do you list it by culture? Namibian, Zulu etc.


    (Wow - this thread has now gone of the rails.)



  • Ok...


    What's the term for someone who isn't an African American...? Black?

  • Hey Martin:


    As an African American myself, the alternate word to "Negro" would be, well; you guessed it:African-American.
    Martin Murtonen said:

    Nope - not a friend of Gospel Underground fellow.


    I don't have the same issue regarding the term "Negro" - but if there were an alternate term, what would it be?

  • Thank you again Buzz. Always grounding things.


    I apologize to all if I tend to fly off the handle a little. But the common consensus seems to be: Get better stuff created. lets see if we can work up the farm team to get this started.


    And peeps, fill out the survey - It will help everybody.



  • Nope - not a friend of Gospel Underground fellow.


    I don't have the same issue regarding the term "Negro" - but if there were an alternate term, what would it be?


       If you are a friend of the guy who does Gospel Underground, then you may want to let him know not to describe any of his characters racially as "Negro", as he currently has under the Characters tab.  I do think that word has a racists slant nowadays.


      The Christianity haters are just waiting for something to use against us, and they can use that to call Gospel Underground "racist".



  • Ribu,


    I have a very long answer to this - but I'm going to hold off until I've thought about it, and will probably send it to you via Private Message.


    The statement about Chicken Scratch (which referred to the drawing - not the lettering) was intended as a very BROAD and GENERAL statement, and was borderline sarcastic - as it would've been obvious by this line:


    I'm pretty sure that if I were to lead worship at my church, or put on a concert for the general public - even though I have no musical skill,people would still be thoroughly blessed.


    I'm seeing though that the general consensus on these boards is WHY ISN'T THERE BETTER CHRISTIAN STUFF? And that's what this entire thread is about.


    I MYSELF AM A CULPRIT OF PRODUCING A BAD CHRISTIAN COMIC. I'm 95% responsible. The script was terrible (which is the 5% that wasn't me), I rushed the art, though I will admit I did a decent job on the lettering and placement. But it was less than stellar, and was not by any means a marketable product.


    I hope for a majority of my posts I've been positive. I want to see better stuff. I want to see artists grow. I want to see improvement. I, however, don't want to see people who are passionate, produce stuff that is not quite ready, put it out to market, and then expect some sort of return when none should be expected. 


    What qualifies me to make any of this commentary? 20 years of art lessons and practice. (Practice everyday) A couple years of schooling. Running my own company that produces comic/cartoon/illustrations for childrens books and other products. Years of reading comics and analyzing other artists in multiple genres. Producing my own terrible stuff and then learning from it.


    BUT FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES: ARTISTS, WRITERS, PRODUCERS keep working at your stuff. Take feedback. Learn. Grow. Get better. There will come a moment where - ta-da! your work will be able to stand on it's own.


    ALSO - as a potential publisher (which is what I'm planning on doing) I'm positive I can see the good vs. needs work. I also know my strengths (pencilling, lettering, colors, composition and placement, editorial) vs. my weaknesses (inking, other aspects of editorial, other types of colors, story writing).  Knowing these things will allow me to hire the right people to fill in the gaps. There are some people if they approached me, I would turn them down immediately because of quality. There might be others that I might give a chance because I can see promise.


    Some good things I've found:

    Gospel Underground - From what I see, the work put into it looks fantastic - I'm eagerly anticipating the launch

    Snokie- home of Serenity and Hits and Misses - the story telling is bang on.

    Calvary Comics -Sandhu Sundar Singh was fantastic.

    Head Press

  • Martin Murtonen said:

    "Foolish" and done piss poor are two different things. Though that's not to say that God can't use chicken scratch, terrible dialog, terrible story, excessive typo's, hideous coloring and poorly thought out theology.


    I'm not it glorifying to God or edifying to anyone if someone hacks something out and they don't have the talent to produce the product? Does not God expect our best?


       I want to ask a question, and please forgive my ignorance if such ignorance shows.


       My question is "What Christian comics have been done so "piss poor", with multiple typos within chicken scratch lettering and with terrible dialog, "hideous" coloring, and even a poor showing of theological understanding?"


       What Christian comics are these that you refer to?  What Christian comics are everyone else referring to?


       I have been visiting websites of Christian comics creators for years, and I can't really say that I've seen ANY piss-poorness.  What I have seen are creators who are obviously developing and getting better with each consecutive work.  Their work is equal to or better than the big two comics publishers, both of whom produce some true piss poor crap from time to time.  The output of Christian creators probably can't match up with some indy publishers who are seemingly ultra-devoted to top notch art, such as Alpine or the defunct Crossgen, but generally Christian creators match up well with their secular contemporaries.


      Are we not even talking about Christian comics here?  Are we really talking about Christian movies and Chrisitan rock songs, of which there are more obvious examples of "piss poor"?


       It just seems to me that there is a pervading negativity among some producers of Christian comics toward each other's output, or perhaps rather only toward the output of non-veterans.  Perhaps there is a real rationale for this pessimissm and hyper-critical tendency.  Look, we all know that pinpointing of areas of a comic that need futher development is a good thing because it shows talent where they need to improve.  I'm certainly not arguing against constructive criticism.  But it often seems like some vets have developed a bad taste in their mouths for Christian comics and Christian comics creators in general.  I mean, "piss poor"?  Really?


       Sorry, that's just how it comes off, and it's how I've been perceiving the general tone in Christian comics for a couple of years now.  Am I seriously mistaken about this?  Is there something I'm not seeing that ties it all together?   I just find some comments regarding the general state of Christian comics to be quite demoralizing, because from where I sit, I don't see ANY Christian comics creators who "hack something out but don't have the talent to produce the product".  Are there certain Christian comics I should know about?  And are there dozens and dozens of these piss poor comics, or just a few?




  • Relevant. 


    That's why I illustrate true stories.  In fiction, Christian authors are often dismissed by secular audiences as making God come through in the midnight hour (in a contrived universe), and I agree.  That's why I share true, compelling testimonies of people whom the Lord saved, delivered, empowered for service, and who went forth to the ends of the earth to see a mighty harvest of souls likewise saved, delivered, empowered for service, and sent forth.  That's the Great Commission in action, and it's inspiring to see that God can do that with any surrendered vessel.  It's level ground at the cross, folks!  We have a super God, but there are no super Christians, or at least they didn't start out that way---they had the same beginning that we did, but oftentimes people get tripped up along the way by the world, the flesh, and/or the devil, and never attain to what God designed them to be in eternity past Sadhu Sundar Singh (India), Brother Yun (China), Stephen Sebyala (Uganda, Africa), Cesar Lubrin (Philippines), William Tyndale (United Kingdom), D. L. Moody (Massachusetts, USA), Erlo Stegen (South Africa) and B. H. Clendennen (Texas, USA) are only a few of the overcomers whose testimonies I've published in comics form.  Multiplied thousands have sold across the world, and more are in the works. 


    It is very likely that we shall see deepening effects of this global economic Depression in the new year, but we have a shelter in the storm in Jesus Christ.  May everyone here have a happy and blessed new year, and may you proceed with excellent wisdom gained by meditating upon His Word and in the secret closet of prayer---it doesn't come any other way.  And we need to be wise as serpents and innocent as doves, now more than ever. 


    Alec Stevens  

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