After reading the discussion about font size, I think that I am going to have to type my text in instead of doing it all by hand. But what is the best way, if I want to do the rest of the page, including drawing the baloons, by hand? Do I need to put it all in illustrator at the end and then type my text in that way?
You need to be a member of CCAS - Christian Comic Arts Society to add comments!
Almost two years later, I am re-reading all of these valuable ideas. (I have four little kids so my project may take ten years or so.) I did draw the first ten pages by hand and with my own lettering. Then I shrunk it 77% to fit on a standard 8 1/2 x 11 page and guess what. Although it is read-able, I now know that it would be better with digital lettering. Even though it may take forever, I am going to do the drawing and word bubbles myself. Thanks again everyone for your input.
good deal, everybody! i'm glad people have gotten something from it and that others have contributed! And Jennifer, your plan sounds really good. I think that Byran Lee O'Malley talks about drawing the balloons with the art before digital letterring (of course, as opposed to the traditional way of making the balloons as you letter) in the back of Scott Pilgrim vol 5 (in which he details other parts of his art process). They have that in most book stores nowadays, so you could give it a look even if you don't buy the book. and don't forget that if you want the LOOK of hand lettering without actually having to hand letter, you can always find a font that is styled after hand letterring. I even have a friend (Joe Wight, of twilight x and tons of other stuff) who has a font that was made from his handwriting. So even when he letters with digitally, it looks like it was done by hand (and you can find fonts with variations on the letters if you don't want it to look completely uniform)...
i was thinking about fonts and licenses, too. i know that there are people who don't care about licences- and i've often just downloaded everything I could- but if your book is getting printed, it's probably a good idea to double check the licenses- and if you're not sure- you could probably just find the font again to download and the license will probably also be there.
oh and here's a question- how about premade balloon templates?
how do they work for you? I've tried them, but it just seemed hard to make them fit as I wanted to use them. looking at most marvel books, it looks to me like they often use premade ones- for thought balloons, too.
and another thought- if you like to have a art that is complete on the page and not on a computer, but you still want text that is uniform and nice- you can always print it from any world processor! there is professional work that is done today like this. you can type them up in the configurations you'll put in your balloons and if you want to change it, you can cut and rearrange the words (or reprint) a little glue stick is all you need!
This is a great discussion and you all have wonderful resources. I am re-evaluating the way I do lettering, and this is all good food for thought. Thank you.
1. Check out an art store for a font package for different fonts that will work in the program that you want to use, even if it's MS Word. (you can load a hand drawn comic in MS Word if you wanted to... why... well, that's another story.) Also, if you have a particular program, you'll have catering to it, such as Letraset who sells CDs of 3 fonts catered specifically toward comics.
2. Check the computer magazines. Seriously! Computer magazines give free files away to get you to buy their magazine, if you find a magazine giving away a font you want, consider buying it.
3. Graphic Design Rules. Not to offend others, but every college teaches from the same book... or at least has it in the teachers library. There is a graphics design book... might be called a typesetters book that has been published every year for years now. It's rather small, very thick, and talks about fonts, color theory, and pretty much everything related to Graphic Design. It is your rules manual, and you should own one. Search Borders and Barnes & Noble for it... my copy is sitting in my storage unit, so I can't tell you the name off hand... but I've described it well enough I hope.
4. Illustrator is the software of choice. Not everyone chooses it though. If the finance is a pain, you can hit scribus - http://www.scribus.net/ , gimp - http://www.gimp.org/ , and several others - as noted here > http://emptyeasel.com/2008/07/11/open-source-software-for-artists-w... . These are all capable software, if they weren't, no one would use them. The only repeating issue with open source (freely available software including all updates) is the lack of commercial support in manuals and physical magazines. Only blender - http://www.blender.org/ , that monster, has overcome this challenge with various books and magazines that can't help saying something. (which means somehow, in some way, it became better than the mainstream counterparts... but that's too rare to consider normal)
You can port your .ai file or .eps file into photoshop afterwards as a layer if needs be.
Also, if you're an independent, Blambot fonts has an excellent array of "Free" fonts to use. Just make sure you understand the usage rights.
I've also bought fonts from Blambot and have never been disappointed.
Daniel gives some good advice. You can get away with pretty small pt size for your type. I typically use 8pt (with a 10pt line height - read as 8pt/10pt) But you may have to vary it as needed - different fonts will have different sizes.
DO look into getting professional comic fonts. The reason for this is most classic fonts are built for reading in books and they look "wrong" when put into a comic. The only caveat to this is if you are intending to create a more "formal" looking book, then finding the right font to fit the tale might lead to something more traditional.
Thank you for that advice, Daniel. I don't mind the details, as I have a lot to learn. And being uptight is a good thing in this realm I think. I have to work on that too!
I really love good hand-lettering but mine is just not that good. I'll probably draw my bubbles by hand and then put the text in digitally afterward. I think that will work since my text will be all planned-out ahead of time.
Daniel Conner said:
i think that the style of lettering is very much a part of the book as a whole and should suit the content of the story. typically, a selection is made and then that (depending on your program) selection is filled with white, while givena black border. in the past couple years, i've gone with using an elipse tool to form circle bubbles and do jus that, to then selecting the bubbles freehand (note- all is done on a computer) and filling it white, to now just drawing the bubbles freehand (sometimes not completely forming them and/or integrating them into the art- even if in another layer) I'll then, if needed, not tone/color that area OR put another later inbetween the bubbles and the rest of the art of white, to make the bubbles white. this former style is probably rather atypical, but i think it suits the comedy strips i'm doing (crazygoodcomics.com) however, i think it would be HORRIBLE for serious super hero stuff. also, most manga i see has hand drawn bubbles that aren't perfect shapes, so again, it's all about the style.
Also, something I hate! is bubbles that are too wide. I mean i've done it plenty before, i hope i've learned!
If you have 12 words- don't do 2 lines of 6 words. Do like 3 lines of 4 or 4 lines of 3, or even 2 on the top, 2 on the bottom, and the middle two lines with 4 each. the closer the text is to an actual shape, i'd say, the better. Also, I'd say try to not split up words as much as possible. If you can, either reword or rephrase the sentence. Now, I've never heard these two from a pro about letterring- i mean, i see marvel books that break those two rules all the time. i just think with a little effort it can look better. but of course, if you are a letterrer and not the writer, you're not going to take those rephrasing liberties- and, you shouldn't! Another reason why i like to not have my final script done until i see the art. (a style of writing made popular, if not started, by Stan Lee)
also, bubbles that are too thick. i try to keep my bubbles (now) about the same width of borders as the majority of the linework, that way it doesn't either stand out too much or get lost in the art. I enjoy taller balloons, but wider ones.
there are artists who draw the balloons with the art and then scan it and letter it. but you've got to be pretty sure what your text will be and that you can fit it in there. i'd also say, the rule is always, make the bubbles too big rather than too small. you can always make the text bigger if need be, but smaller can render it unreadable.
and unless you're wes molebash or like chris eliopoulus- letter on the computer with a font, for sure! it saves time, is easy to edit, and generally looks better- unless, of course, you're handwriting is that awesome. now, i'll admit, i sometimes will hand write stuff, but that is either for comedic value, or as a "director's cut" and then, i purposefully leave it kind of sloppy- like i'm writing someone a note. in fact today's strip (1/29/10) is a prime example of that...
at 300 dpi, i've been using anime ace 2.0 at about 10 (sometimes larger, sometimes smaller) but that's just anime ace. when i use mighty zeo, i'll generally go up a couple sizes, since the font itself (tho by the same designer!) is smaller.
so my humble opinion is:
DO letter digitally DO find the format that fits your comic DO leave extra space in your bubbles DO keep the letters in a separate layer (or likely, layers) and save an unflattened format so that you can redit the text without redoing the art, etc.
DON'T squeeze in text DON'T make the wordes into assymetrical configurations (unless it is to make a point!) DON'T make the bubble borders too thick or thin- just right!
maybe i'm up tight about this- and i'll admit, my letterring isn't perfect- i try to stick to those rules, and i've come a long way- and i guarantee that my current freeform style of lettering would be thrown out by marvel, dc, and the like, especially for superhero books!
hope that helps, those are my ideas. i just hate seeing a good book with horribel lettering, it really turns me off and can push me away from a book more than most anything. i'll read a book with bad art, but not bad lettering! (and again, i'm not claiming mine is neccesarily good!)
i think that the style of lettering is very much a part of the book as a whole and should suit the content of the story. typically, a selection is made and then that (depending on your program) selection is filled with white, while givena black border. in the past couple years, i've gone with using an elipse tool to form circle bubbles and do jus that, to then selecting the bubbles freehand (note- all is done on a computer) and filling it white, to now just drawing the bubbles freehand (sometimes not completely forming them and/or integrating them into the art- even if in another layer) I'll then, if needed, not tone/color that area OR put another later inbetween the bubbles and the rest of the art of white, to make the bubbles white. this former style is probably rather atypical, but i think it suits the comedy strips i'm doing (crazygoodcomics.com) however, i think it would be HORRIBLE for serious super hero stuff. also, most manga i see has hand drawn bubbles that aren't perfect shapes, so again, it's all about the style.
Also, something I hate! is bubbles that are too wide. I mean i've done it plenty before, i hope i've learned!
If you have 12 words- don't do 2 lines of 6 words. Do like 3 lines of 4 or 4 lines of 3, or even 2 on the top, 2 on the bottom, and the middle two lines with 4 each. the closer the text is to an actual shape, i'd say, the better. Also, I'd say try to not split up words as much as possible. If you can, either reword or rephrase the sentence. Now, I've never heard these two from a pro about letterring- i mean, i see marvel books that break those two rules all the time. i just think with a little effort it can look better. but of course, if you are a letterrer and not the writer, you're not going to take those rephrasing liberties- and, you shouldn't! Another reason why i like to not have my final script done until i see the art. (a style of writing made popular, if not started, by Stan Lee)
also, bubbles that are too thick. i try to keep my bubbles (now) about the same width of borders as the majority of the linework, that way it doesn't either stand out too much or get lost in the art. I enjoy taller balloons, but wider ones.
there are artists who draw the balloons with the art and then scan it and letter it. but you've got to be pretty sure what your text will be and that you can fit it in there. i'd also say, the rule is always, make the bubbles too big rather than too small. you can always make the text bigger if need be, but smaller can render it unreadable.
and unless you're wes molebash or like chris eliopoulus- letter on the computer with a font, for sure! it saves time, is easy to edit, and generally looks better- unless, of course, you're handwriting is that awesome. now, i'll admit, i sometimes will hand write stuff, but that is either for comedic value, or as a "director's cut" and then, i purposefully leave it kind of sloppy- like i'm writing someone a note. in fact today's strip (1/29/10) is a prime example of that...
at 300 dpi, i've been using anime ace 2.0 at about 10 (sometimes larger, sometimes smaller) but that's just anime ace. when i use mighty zeo, i'll generally go up a couple sizes, since the font itself (tho by the same designer!) is smaller.
so my humble opinion is:
DO letter digitally
DO find the format that fits your comic
DO leave extra space in your bubbles
DO keep the letters in a separate layer (or likely, layers) and save an unflattened format so that you can redit the text without redoing the art, etc.
DON'T squeeze in text
DON'T make the wordes into assymetrical configurations (unless it is to make a point!)
DON'T make the bubble borders too thick or thin- just right!
maybe i'm up tight about this- and i'll admit, my letterring isn't perfect- i try to stick to those rules, and i've come a long way- and i guarantee that my current freeform style of lettering would be thrown out by marvel, dc, and the like, especially for superhero books!
hope that helps, those are my ideas. i just hate seeing a good book with horribel lettering, it really turns me off and can push me away from a book more than most anything. i'll read a book with bad art, but not bad lettering! (and again, i'm not claiming mine is neccesarily good!)
Hi Buzz, I have heard of other artists using Illustrator in this way. I am wondering, can you import the lettered page back into photoshop?
Thanks,
Earnest
Buzz Dixon said:
I used Illustrator all the way. the image -- regardless if it was digitally created or scanned from a drawing -- would be an underlying tiff, then the balloon level would be built on that and the dialog overlaid (I'd often have a separate sound effects level, too).
I preferred adding the balloons in Illustrator because if the work was ever repurposed/translated it would be easier to deal with than trying to accomodate pre-existing balloons which may/may not fit the translated text.
Typically I would lay the dialog in first, positioned it where I liked it, then built the balloon around it. Clipping tools let me trim the balloons so they'd fit panels, pass behind objects in the art, etc.
Replies
Almost two years later, I am re-reading all of these valuable ideas. (I have four little kids so my project may take ten years or so.) I did draw the first ten pages by hand and with my own lettering. Then I shrunk it 77% to fit on a standard 8 1/2 x 11 page and guess what. Although it is read-able, I now know that it would be better with digital lettering. Even though it may take forever, I am going to do the drawing and word bubbles myself. Thanks again everyone for your input.
i was thinking about fonts and licenses, too. i know that there are people who don't care about licences- and i've often just downloaded everything I could- but if your book is getting printed, it's probably a good idea to double check the licenses- and if you're not sure- you could probably just find the font again to download and the license will probably also be there.
oh and here's a question- how about premade balloon templates?
how do they work for you? I've tried them, but it just seemed hard to make them fit as I wanted to use them. looking at most marvel books, it looks to me like they often use premade ones- for thought balloons, too.
and another thought- if you like to have a art that is complete on the page and not on a computer, but you still want text that is uniform and nice- you can always print it from any world processor! there is professional work that is done today like this. you can type them up in the configurations you'll put in your balloons and if you want to change it, you can cut and rearrange the words (or reprint) a little glue stick is all you need!
1. Check out an art store for a font package for different fonts that will work in the program that you want to use, even if it's MS Word. (you can load a hand drawn comic in MS Word if you wanted to... why... well, that's another story.) Also, if you have a particular program, you'll have catering to it, such as Letraset who sells CDs of 3 fonts catered specifically toward comics.
2. Check the computer magazines. Seriously! Computer magazines give free files away to get you to buy their magazine, if you find a magazine giving away a font you want, consider buying it.
3. Graphic Design Rules. Not to offend others, but every college teaches from the same book... or at least has it in the teachers library. There is a graphics design book... might be called a typesetters book that has been published every year for years now. It's rather small, very thick, and talks about fonts, color theory, and pretty much everything related to Graphic Design. It is your rules manual, and you should own one. Search Borders and Barnes & Noble for it... my copy is sitting in my storage unit, so I can't tell you the name off hand... but I've described it well enough I hope.
4. Illustrator is the software of choice. Not everyone chooses it though. If the finance is a pain, you can hit scribus - http://www.scribus.net/ , gimp - http://www.gimp.org/ , and several others - as noted here > http://emptyeasel.com/2008/07/11/open-source-software-for-artists-w... . These are all capable software, if they weren't, no one would use them. The only repeating issue with open source (freely available software including all updates) is the lack of commercial support in manuals and physical magazines. Only blender - http://www.blender.org/ , that monster, has overcome this challenge with various books and magazines that can't help saying something. (which means somehow, in some way, it became better than the mainstream counterparts... but that's too rare to consider normal)
You can port your .ai file or .eps file into photoshop afterwards as a layer if needs be.
Also, if you're an independent, Blambot fonts has an excellent array of "Free" fonts to use. Just make sure you understand the usage rights.
I've also bought fonts from Blambot and have never been disappointed.
Daniel gives some good advice. You can get away with pretty small pt size for your type. I typically use 8pt (with a 10pt line height - read as 8pt/10pt) But you may have to vary it as needed - different fonts will have different sizes.
DO look into getting professional comic fonts. The reason for this is most classic fonts are built for reading in books and they look "wrong" when put into a comic. The only caveat to this is if you are intending to create a more "formal" looking book, then finding the right font to fit the tale might lead to something more traditional.
I really love good hand-lettering but mine is just not that good. I'll probably draw my bubbles by hand and then put the text in digitally afterward. I think that will work since my text will be all planned-out ahead of time.
Daniel Conner said:
Also, something I hate! is bubbles that are too wide. I mean i've done it plenty before, i hope i've learned!
If you have 12 words- don't do 2 lines of 6 words. Do like 3 lines of 4 or 4 lines of 3, or even 2 on the top, 2 on the bottom, and the middle two lines with 4 each. the closer the text is to an actual shape, i'd say, the better. Also, I'd say try to not split up words as much as possible. If you can, either reword or rephrase the sentence. Now, I've never heard these two from a pro about letterring- i mean, i see marvel books that break those two rules all the time. i just think with a little effort it can look better. but of course, if you are a letterrer and not the writer, you're not going to take those rephrasing liberties- and, you shouldn't! Another reason why i like to not have my final script done until i see the art. (a style of writing made popular, if not started, by Stan Lee)
also, bubbles that are too thick. i try to keep my bubbles (now) about the same width of borders as the majority of the linework, that way it doesn't either stand out too much or get lost in the art. I enjoy taller balloons, but wider ones.
there are artists who draw the balloons with the art and then scan it and letter it. but you've got to be pretty sure what your text will be and that you can fit it in there. i'd also say, the rule is always, make the bubbles too big rather than too small. you can always make the text bigger if need be, but smaller can render it unreadable.
and unless you're wes molebash or like chris eliopoulus- letter on the computer with a font, for sure! it saves time, is easy to edit, and generally looks better- unless, of course, you're handwriting is that awesome. now, i'll admit, i sometimes will hand write stuff, but that is either for comedic value, or as a "director's cut" and then, i purposefully leave it kind of sloppy- like i'm writing someone a note. in fact today's strip (1/29/10) is a prime example of that...
at 300 dpi, i've been using anime ace 2.0 at about 10 (sometimes larger, sometimes smaller) but that's just anime ace. when i use mighty zeo, i'll generally go up a couple sizes, since the font itself (tho by the same designer!) is smaller.
so my humble opinion is:
DO letter digitally
DO find the format that fits your comic
DO leave extra space in your bubbles
DO keep the letters in a separate layer (or likely, layers) and save an unflattened format so that you can redit the text without redoing the art, etc.
DON'T squeeze in text
DON'T make the wordes into assymetrical configurations (unless it is to make a point!)
DON'T make the bubble borders too thick or thin- just right!
maybe i'm up tight about this- and i'll admit, my letterring isn't perfect- i try to stick to those rules, and i've come a long way- and i guarantee that my current freeform style of lettering would be thrown out by marvel, dc, and the like, especially for superhero books!
hope that helps, those are my ideas. i just hate seeing a good book with horribel lettering, it really turns me off and can push me away from a book more than most anything. i'll read a book with bad art, but not bad lettering! (and again, i'm not claiming mine is neccesarily good!)
Thanks,
Earnest
Buzz Dixon said: