Buzz Dixon said: So how does adding extra-Biblical traditions of what occured enroute to Golgotha affect in anyway the word of God? There is no Christian teaching based on any of these extra-Biblical incidents. ANY dramatic/artistic interpretation to the text is going to add something.
Because to both the unlearned, and flat out lost, it wraps the extra-biblical teachings, in a coating of thick rich aramaic, and gives those not discerning, and verifying everything , the allusion that they are just quoting scripture.
Think about this, They tried to pass it off as "realistic", and "authentic" because instead of translating it into English, because that wouldn't be authentic enough, they translated the GREEK into Aramaic, and THEN subtitled it. I don't know if it was intentional, or not, because ultimately I don't care, but the end result is they did not treat the word of God as HOLY. God put a very very harsh warning for us to not mess with it. We need to take that warning seriously, because God does mean business. Their is already too much confusion and dissent based upon what we know to be true. Now MILLIONS have been exposed to the gospel tainted with a fiction, a fiction is a lie, before you start talking about parables, and that, Jesus was GOD, Mel Gibson, and the catholic church are not. And they contradict Gods word. You want to defend a work of fiction that made a great deal of money, over Gods Holy word, that has been bathed in the blood of martyrs, you are free to do so, but who do you think took better care to match as exactingly as humanly possible, A Hollywood mogul, who had everyone especially Christians, and had very little dissent against his Film, or Scribes who would destroy a whole scroll if there were one tiny error? Who held what was in their hands as the Holy Word of God?
The passion does have allusions to several catholic heresies. And traditions of men, along with things that are just plain conjecture. Sure its all dolled up in "Aramaic" BUT the Aramaic DOES NOT line up with scripture on several accounts. Call it script tweaking if you want, but we as a people have lost our fear of God, and are increasingly relying more and more on our own understanding of things. Something the scripture warns us against doing.
As for Violence , we as Christians are called to be set apart from the world. We are called to live at peace wit hall men as much as possible. We are also called to pray for our enemies, and to leave place unto wrath to God alone.
If we are unfit to judge anothers sin, how is it we are fit to dish out vengeance? This is more of an issue with Christians, who call us to so called "justified" wars, and conflicts, or as some do, assassination, which I can see absolutely NO scriptural support of whatsoever under the new covenant.
If we are all sinners Guilty of facing Gods judgment, then we need to step back from our blood lust and ask ourselves, if that is really being an ambassador of Christ, or if it is seeking to make our own righteousness or illusion of it, here on earth of our own power. Not Gods.
I am becoming ever increasingly aware of just how ignorant we all are of what Gods word actually says, and it says a great deal, so its not like we don't have something to learn from, and verify things using.
He will deal with judgment when the time comes, we aren't called to dish it out, we are called to share His Gospel with the world.
Paul said NOT to resist evil but rather defeat evil with good. It is Gods place to serve out the vengeance, not ours.
(Quoting R Jay)
Violence can be used for good, as in defense and resistance to evil. Violence can also be used for righteous vengeance, however this kind of violence only rightfully belongs to God.
The Bible says not to add to or take away from the word of God.
Buzz Dixon said:
Shannon H said:
I guess I should be more clear. I was just making the point that we worry about how we write and draw violence but we are so violent (patriotic) when someone threatens our way of life.
As some have said, violence used in the right context is ok. But, I would add that a true hero (Christ) turns the other cheek.
If your trying to do "Christian comics," I would stick with what is Biblical....Not like the Passion of Christ. There were a LOT of things in the Passion of the Christ that were false and no better than Joseph Smith's writings. It amazes me how many people (churches) got sucked into The Passion. That movie is truth laced with fiction, which makes it ALL false doctrine. Including this THING we call "Christian Fiction." Those two words seem like an oxymoron to me. If you want to write fiction, just write fiction. And, when they make it a movie and it exceeds Avatar, give God the glory. :-)
I do want to add- If you feel guilty about it, don't do it.
What was false in THE PASSION OF CHRIST? Just because it was recorded in an extra-Biblical source doesn't mean it didn't happen.
I guess I should be more clear. I was just making the point that we worry about how we write and draw violence but we are so violent (patriotic) when someone threatens our way of life.
As some have said, violence used in the right context is ok. But, I would add that a true hero (Christ) turns the other cheek.
If your trying to do "Christian comics," I would stick with what is Biblical....Not like the Passion of Christ. There were a LOT of things in the Passion of the Christ that were false and no better than Joseph Smith's writings. It amazes me how many people (churches) got sucked into The Passion. That movie is truth laced with fiction, which makes it ALL false doctrine. Including this THING we call "Christian Fiction." Those two words seem like an oxymoron to me. If you want to write fiction, just write fiction. And, when they make it a movie and it exceeds Avatar, give God the glory. :-)
I do want to add- If you feel guilty about it, don't do it.
Daniel Conner said:
also- shannon, i don't get what you're saying.
are you anti violence in comics
or anti war in real life?
it sems that maybe you're... both?
Shannon H said:
No violence, vengence, and so called righteous wars in comics but yet Christians now support wars and fight in them? you cant censor violent stories in entertainment media that you support in real life. We live in a time where our preachers pervert the words of christ to keep their lavish life styles even if it means killing those who stand in there way or threaten their "FREEDOM" AND way of life. Oh generation of vipers. How long will Gods grace keep you from his wrath?
Violence is a part of life. If someone was to illustrate the Bible, word for word, description for description, it would be the most graphically violent book ever seen. People fought wars, it's a fact of life. In comics, I feel violence has to be done in a way that is handled correctly. Instead of drawing someone getting sliced and diced in graphic detail, you could use sillouette or off panel shots to get the point across. If you don't allow yourself to get carried away, you should be fine.
I also think it's dumb to avoid realities in life. We live in the world. Not of it. If it makes sense to represent conflict with violence, then do it. But as always, be smart about it.
No violence, vengence, and so called righteous wars in comics but yet Christians now support wars and fight in them? you cant censor violent stories in entertainment media that you support in real life. We live in a time where our preachers pervert the words of christ to keep their lavish life styles even if it means killing those who stand in there way or threaten their "FREEDOM" AND way of life. Oh generation of vipers. How long will Gods grace keep you from his wrath?
that's always the thing for us Christians- we're against sex but okay with violence- or that is the sterotype.
i admit, i don't always get the violence issue- but then again, if i see a violent pg13 film, im not going to go attack someone- but then i would say most 7 year olds who watch violent films proabbly do have a tendency to be more violent. and i dont typically watch r rated movies- while the 5 year olds who do are probly even more violent...
i think violence can have a place- the Passion of the Christ was probably among the most violent films- but it isn't sadistic. i think we all know those movies or comics whose purpose is to see gore. i'm just not into that and i don't find it edifying- but i don't have a problem the typical violence in typical american books.
i don't see much of an issue with the violence in much of anything in the marvel or dc line- but i'll admit- when you cross into vertigo or icon- some of those books might be out there. i have looked thru the "kick a" graphic novel and i'll admit- some bits of it were over the top to me- but that might have also been due more to the amount of blood illustrated. and even the covers have lots of blood.
i'd say if we're going to have violence, it should have a reason- it always does in the Bible- and even then, it shouldn't be appealing to people who especially enjoy seeing violence. but a typical fight seen, like you would see in a wrestling or boxing match, or in the pg13 or pg super hero films i don't see a problem wiht- unless someone particularly struggles with that. if i had a kid who had viiolent tendencies, i don't think i would let them see any of it.
another example: the "Hulk Vs. Wolverine/Thor" animated film was pg13 and considerably more violent than any other wolverine animation i've seen- probably about the same as the pg13 live action wolverine or hulk movie. very different from the saturday morning x-men cartoons. and they were made to be so. i would say the cartoons are probly cool for the kids who like them- but i dont' know abotu that cartoon for a 7 year old. i think the violence in this movie served its purpose- i'll admit- it was pretty cool to see that wolverine/hulk fight, over and over i was like "no way! how did they animate that!?!" i enjoyed the film- so i think its okay, but it might influence a kid to be violent.
No violence, vengence, and so called righteous wars in comics but yet Christians now support wars and fight in them? you cant censor violent stories in entertainment media that you support in real life. We live in a time where our preachers pervert the words of christ to keep their lavish life styles even if it means killing those who stand in there way or threaten their "FREEDOM" AND way of life. Oh generation of vipers. How long will Gods grace keep you from his wrath?
Replies
Because to both the unlearned, and flat out lost, it wraps the extra-biblical teachings, in a coating of thick rich aramaic, and gives those not discerning, and verifying everything , the allusion that they are just quoting scripture.
Think about this, They tried to pass it off as "realistic", and "authentic" because instead of translating it into English, because that wouldn't be authentic enough, they translated the GREEK into Aramaic, and THEN subtitled it. I don't know if it was intentional, or not, because ultimately I don't care, but the end result is they did not treat the word of God as HOLY. God put a very very harsh warning for us to not mess with it. We need to take that warning seriously, because God does mean business. Their is already too much confusion and dissent based upon what we know to be true. Now MILLIONS have been exposed to the gospel tainted with a fiction, a fiction is a lie, before you start talking about parables, and that, Jesus was GOD, Mel Gibson, and the catholic church are not. And they contradict Gods word. You want to defend a work of fiction that made a great deal of money, over Gods Holy word, that has been bathed in the blood of martyrs, you are free to do so, but who do you think took better care to match as exactingly as humanly possible, A Hollywood mogul, who had everyone especially Christians, and had very little dissent against his Film, or Scribes who would destroy a whole scroll if there were one tiny error? Who held what was in their hands as the Holy Word of God?
As for Violence , we as Christians are called to be set apart from the world. We are called to live at peace wit hall men as much as possible. We are also called to pray for our enemies, and to leave place unto wrath to God alone.
If we are unfit to judge anothers sin, how is it we are fit to dish out vengeance? This is more of an issue with Christians, who call us to so called "justified" wars, and conflicts, or as some do, assassination, which I can see absolutely NO scriptural support of whatsoever under the new covenant.
If we are all sinners Guilty of facing Gods judgment, then we need to step back from our blood lust and ask ourselves, if that is really being an ambassador of Christ, or if it is seeking to make our own righteousness or illusion of it, here on earth of our own power. Not Gods.
I am becoming ever increasingly aware of just how ignorant we all are of what Gods word actually says, and it says a great deal, so its not like we don't have something to learn from, and verify things using.
He will deal with judgment when the time comes, we aren't called to dish it out, we are called to share His Gospel with the world.
(Quoting R Jay)
Violence can be used for good, as in defense and resistance to evil. Violence can also be used for righteous vengeance, however this kind of violence only rightfully belongs to God.
-- R Jay
Buzz Dixon said:
As some have said, violence used in the right context is ok. But, I would add that a true hero (Christ) turns the other cheek.
If your trying to do "Christian comics," I would stick with what is Biblical....Not like the Passion of Christ. There were a LOT of things in the Passion of the Christ that were false and no better than Joseph Smith's writings. It amazes me how many people (churches) got sucked into The Passion. That movie is truth laced with fiction, which makes it ALL false doctrine. Including this THING we call "Christian Fiction." Those two words seem like an oxymoron to me. If you want to write fiction, just write fiction. And, when they make it a movie and it exceeds Avatar, give God the glory. :-)
I do want to add- If you feel guilty about it, don't do it.
Daniel Conner said:
I also think it's dumb to avoid realities in life. We live in the world. Not of it. If it makes sense to represent conflict with violence, then do it. But as always, be smart about it.
are you anti violence in comics
or anti war in real life?
it sems that maybe you're... both?
Shannon H said:
i admit, i don't always get the violence issue- but then again, if i see a violent pg13 film, im not going to go attack someone- but then i would say most 7 year olds who watch violent films proabbly do have a tendency to be more violent. and i dont typically watch r rated movies- while the 5 year olds who do are probly even more violent...
i think violence can have a place- the Passion of the Christ was probably among the most violent films- but it isn't sadistic. i think we all know those movies or comics whose purpose is to see gore. i'm just not into that and i don't find it edifying- but i don't have a problem the typical violence in typical american books.
i don't see much of an issue with the violence in much of anything in the marvel or dc line- but i'll admit- when you cross into vertigo or icon- some of those books might be out there. i have looked thru the "kick a" graphic novel and i'll admit- some bits of it were over the top to me- but that might have also been due more to the amount of blood illustrated. and even the covers have lots of blood.
i'd say if we're going to have violence, it should have a reason- it always does in the Bible- and even then, it shouldn't be appealing to people who especially enjoy seeing violence. but a typical fight seen, like you would see in a wrestling or boxing match, or in the pg13 or pg super hero films i don't see a problem wiht- unless someone particularly struggles with that. if i had a kid who had viiolent tendencies, i don't think i would let them see any of it.
another example: the "Hulk Vs. Wolverine/Thor" animated film was pg13 and considerably more violent than any other wolverine animation i've seen- probably about the same as the pg13 live action wolverine or hulk movie. very different from the saturday morning x-men cartoons. and they were made to be so. i would say the cartoons are probly cool for the kids who like them- but i dont' know abotu that cartoon for a 7 year old. i think the violence in this movie served its purpose- i'll admit- it was pretty cool to see that wolverine/hulk fight, over and over i was like "no way! how did they animate that!?!" i enjoyed the film- so i think its okay, but it might influence a kid to be violent.
those are my two cents...
any other thoughts?
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