Does the Harry Potter Series have a Christian Foundation?

Martin Murtonen December 3, 2010 at 3:31pm

As a potential opposing view: The Occult Symbolism of Movie “Metropolis” and its Importance in Po...

I hold no opinion one way or the other since I have not seen the film. Just thought this would be something that could help inform the discussion as to perceptions of the film.

Calvary Comics December 3, 2010 at 3:00pm

Buzz Dixon said:

BTW, dragging METROPOLIS back into this:

http://www.dvdtalk.com/dvdsavant/s3380metr.html

They see it as a Christian film, too.

Does that mean Peter Sellers' Dr. Strangelove is a neo-evangelical? ;)

Calvary Comics December 3, 2010 at 12:29pm

When the 1977 "Star Wars" film first had theatrical release, Dave "The Berean Call" Hunt and Rabi "Death of a Guru" Maharaj, both Christian apologists, attended the film and marveled at how eastern animism and shamanism were being sold to westerners in the guise of 'fantasy.' Francis Ford Coppola told writer-director George Lucas (a former Methodist who is now an 'enlightened Buddhist'), "You could start your own religion with this," perhaps in reference to L. Ron Hubbard, former science fiction novelist-turned-founder of Scientology. There are a number of "Star Wars" fans out there who try to find 'real' Jedi religion and power therein, not knowing the living God.

I suppose if I were going to ask a rhetorical question in this thread, it would be this: where does one draw the line, and why? Where does God draw the line? Why do some Christians say it's OK to enjoy Narnia, but not Lord of the Rings, the Wizard of Oz, and Harry Potter? Or Narnia and Rings, but not the other two? For a change I'm not going to offer any further comment on this, but welcome others'. I find it interesting the various 'cut off' points that different believers have for all this. They can't all be right, but they can all be wrong, or some wrong. There is a clear, simple answer, but I'll say no more. It seems that vertical (Divine) revelation is needed more than horizontal (human) information.

Kind regards in Christ Jesus,

Alec

Matthew M. December 3, 2010 at 8:20am

In an overall view, Harry Potter is a good over evil story, but really doesn't have any Christian message or leanings. In fact, the HP universe is devoid of any spirituality at all. There are spiritual beings throughout the series, but their fate is uncertain in most cases. The characters exist in a vacuum of belief, with really nothing left after death. This is fully illustrated in the Deathly Hallows when Harry faces his own mortality and simply looks forward to release from his physical body and the absence of any existence at all. He does find out, through use of the resurrection stone, that the spirit does survive after physical death, but , again, what this means is really up in the air. His parents and Sirius seem to just be hanging around in the afterlife without any discussion or thought towards a heaven or hell. It is noble that Harry is willing to die for his friends, but he completely relies on himself for any resolutions to these major conflicts and when he can't, he has nowhere to turn.

HP exists in a sterile, Godless, fictional world. The books are very well written and very imaginative, but are simple fantasy. If you can't enjoy them for what they are, then I sort of feel sorry for you. The lack of God in these tales makes some clear illustrations of why God is important in our lives during crisis and tragedy. The message that love can protect or save from death is meaningless without Christ.

Again, to me, this shows that these tales are clearly in as much of a fantasy world as Star Wars or Narnia.

Rob Marsh December 2, 2010 at 7:16am

Calvary Comics said:

Interviewer: Americans have latched on to C. S. Lewis, and yet here's a guy who was a chain smoker, who liked his pints, who told ribald jokes, and in general, wouldn't fit what we think of as the "typical evangelical." And yet we've all wrapped our arms around him. Why is that?

Reminds me of the Dr. Bob Jones Jr. quote, after an interview with C.S. Lewis said,

"That man smokes a pipe, and that man drinks liquor, but I do believe he is a Christian."

Jason Fabok November 30, 2010 at 3:36pm

"Interviewer: Americans have latched on to C. S. Lewis, and yet here's a guy who was a chain smoker, who liked his pints, who told ribald jokes, and in general, wouldn't fit what we think of as the "typical evangelical." And yet we've all wrapped our arms around him."

Personally, I don't see why its so bad that he smoked, or drank or wasn't "perfect". Smoking was part of life back then, a lot of people did it, including probably many, many evanglical born-again christians. It doesn't make you less christian if you smoke or if you enjoy a "pint". Everyday we pump our bodies full of all kinds of junk that's found in our food that is just as bad as the stuff we put in our bodies if we smoked. I don't drink personally because I used to abuse alcohol as a teen, but I don't see the problem with a christian wanting to have a glass of wine here and there. Jesus drank wine, same with Paul and the apostles...and don't tell me it wasn't alcoholic.
In the end, CS Lewis knew the truth, stood up for the truth and taught the truth. Was his doctrine or theology spot on? Probably not. Mine isn't, yours isn't. No ones is. Was he a perfect christian? Nope. Im not. No one is. The fact is, we all can find to things in our lives that do not line up with scripture, whether it be lust, greed, lying, or any other sin. No one is perfect. And if we could lose our salvation, we would all be doomed. But it's what Christ did for us, not what we could do to earn salvation, that matters.

http://alcoholic.In/

Calvary Comics November 30, 2010 at 12:41pm

I value different opinions from siblings in Christ, and welcome those that are diametrically opposed to mine, especially if they're politely put forth. As for calling me "dude," I'm not the Big Lebowski! No, I'm not saying Lewis was unsaved. I've read many fine thoughts from him in his books MERE CHRISTIANITY and SURPRISED BY JOY. I wasn't too keen on SCREWTAPE LETTERS (which is pretty much an extension of a Leo Tolstoy short story, "Promoting a Devil"---Tolstoy's WAR AND PEACE was Lewis' favorite novel).

So many contemporary Christians embrace C. S. Lewis as spiritual hero without knowing what he truly espoused. For example, this excerpt from an interview with his stepson Douglas Gresham from the December, 2005 issue of CHRISTIANITY TODAY is quite telling and is an unfortunate reflection of the present apostasy in much of the western church:

Interviewer: Americans have latched on to C. S. Lewis, and yet here's a guy who was a chain smoker, who liked his pints, who told ribald jokes, and in general, wouldn't fit what we think of as the "typical evangelical." And yet we've all wrapped our arms around him. Why is that?

Gresham: One of the reasons is that through the—if you can excuse the expression—the bulls**t that has come to be taken so seriously in American Christianity, through all of that, they can still see the essential truth that Jack represented. The problem with evangelical Christianity in America today, a large majority of you have sacrificed the essential for the sake of the trivial. You concentrate on the trivialities—not smoking, not drinking, not using bad language, not dressing inappropriately in church, and so on. Jesus doesn't give two hoots for that sort of bulls**t. If you go out and DO Christianity, you can smoke if you want, you can drink if you want—though not to excess, in either case.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/movies/interviews/2005/douglasg...

Ribu John November 30, 2010 at 12:13am

While Alec does need to lighten up on the Narnia-bashing, overall, he is on the money. I think we have lightened up a bit too much as a Christian community. I think the accusation of "legalism" used to mean something 20 years ago, when legalists abounded everywhere. But nowadays the acceptance of sin is more of a threat.

While I don't know Alec, from what I read of Alec, he often sounds like he is following the footsteps of Jack Chick, however more gentlemanly in tone. While that is albeit a flawed tradition, I think the Chick way still has power for the cause of the Kingdom. If there were no Jack Chicks, love-gospel hippies who want to turn Jesus into a over-indulgent pansy would rule Christianity unchecked. Kudos to the doctrinal stalwarts. We need more Hank Haanegraafs and fewer Joel Osteens.

Jason Fabok November 29, 2010 at 12:47pm

Calvary Comics said:

If you look at the lives of those who have been greatly used of God, past and present, you'll find that they jettisoned worldly entertainments early on in favor of having more time in the Word, in prayer, in evangelism, in discipling new converts, in intercession, fastings, etc. If you look at the lives of couch potato "Christians" who have a one-hour Sunday morning religious moment in the midst of their seven-day gluttony/idolatry at the hog trough of worldly entertainments, you'll find powerless, nominal believers with little or no personal victory over their own flesh, let alone the devil, and no converts. Show me a tree with no fruit, and I'll show you a picture of spiritual death. How much poison can one imbibe and still make it into heaven? That's not an experiment I'd care to make.

For the glory of God and the souls of men---that's what the born again life is all about. The fields are white unto harvest, and the need out there is very great---but, as our Lord Jesus said, the laborers are few. That's a tragedy. There's nothing more effective than personal evangelism. In the western world Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons are doing more door-to-door "witnessing" than Christians, and that's a sad commentary.

As for Lord of the Rings, J. R. R. Tolkien was a Roman Catholic, not a born again Christian. Tolkien prayed to the "queen of heaven" (Mary, "co-redemptress" with Christ), prayed the rosary, prayed to "saints," believed in purgatory, indulgences, paying for mass cards to get out of purgatory sooner, and a host of other Romish tenets which are contrary to Biblical doctrine.

As for C. S. Lewis, he had no convictions over defiling his earthly body with tobacco and alcohol, and like his Romish friend he believed in purgatory. Romans 6:10 says of our Lord Jesus Christ, "For in that He died, He died unto sin once; but in that He liveth, He liveth unto God." Lewis had the gall to have his Aslan (Christ as a lion) character die and resurrect in the Narnia world, saying of his earthly persona, "But there I have another name. You must learn to know me by that name. This was the very reason you were brought into Narnia, that by knowing me here for a little, you might know me better there." Surely Lewis had read Romans 6:9 which says that "Christ, being raised from the dead, dies no more," but contrary to this core doctrine of the faith he has his readers enjoy a surrogate "Christ" (Aslan) with a second resurrection.

We need an anointing in this apostate generation as never before. Christ is coming back for a bride without blemish, a church that operates in the same character, consecration, and supernatural power as the first century church, and nothing less.

Dude, you sound very very legalistic. It's very dangerous to judge a man's soul and salvation. It sounds like you're saying that these men were not saved because of having doctrinal differences and theological inconsistancies? WHen does this ever disqualify someone for the redemptive power of Christ? Narnia is a book, for entertainment purposes. You're view is that its doctrinally sound or scripture...It's a book to read for FUN. I also believe biblically that once you ask christ to forgive your sins, and make him your savior, you're saved for life...Catholics, however far there practices are from biblical truth, can still be saved. You're rants scare me. Lighten up bro.

Calvary Comics November 29, 2010 at 12:29pm

Buzz Dixon said:

And if you think this dance is outrageous, what have ye to say to the ouvere of DeMille? Not to mention Michaelangelo.)

Michelangelo loved pagan Greco-Roman art which informs all of his "Bible" scenes: a naked Apollo statue is called "David"; a horned satyr-type is designated as "Moses"; all the Renaissance mother and child art is Aphrodite & Eros/Venus & Cupid (even Picasso criticised it as thinly veiled paganism when Matisse did some commissioned work for the Romish church). Michelangelo also thought the female body was inferior, so he used male models for all of his figures, adding breasts on the femmes. All the "haloes" are unbiblical, being taken from the Babylon Mystery Religion and from other eastern religions (Buddhism, etc.). While Leonardo, Michelangelo, and Raphael were painting for "mother Rome," the Inquisition was in full swing, and many genuine Christians were among the 68 million who were slaughtered by the Vatican for not going along with their doctrines. I appreciate these old masters' artistic skill, but do not look to their art for spiritual inspiration.

Cecil DeMille was also a Roman Catholic, and the biography Cecil DeMille: a Life in Art states that "religion and sex were mixed up in many of his films and made him hugely rich and powerful." Such mixture is a dangerous compromise.

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Here's a brief message from Joseph R. Chambers, DD, regarding mixture:

The church of this apostate generation has lost its power and purity by allowing a mixture. This is clearly one of Satan's primary battle strategies.

When liberalism is on the outside, it begs the church for fair play and the right to be a part. But, when liberalism is inside, it slowly leavens the lump until it is in the majority and then it says to those whom it begged acceptance, "Get out! We do not need your old-fashioned ways."

When psychology was but the little fox, all it appeared to desire was just the right to be a part. Psychology wanted to help make the gospel more effective for those who had pain and were emotionally wrecked. Oh, but when psychology gains a place of authority, it then says to the Gospel, "You are too old-fashioned and out-dated, I'm the better way." Psychology makes a beautiful dressed up rationale for compassion, but it is nothing but Satan as an angel of light.

The Holy Bible is a book of the "straight and narrow." It is perfect in every part and aspect of its message. The pure church is the powerful church. All you need to do to produce a false gospel is add one element of the world and its imaginations. When you add the twelve-step programs to your church, you become a social agency, not the Bride of Christ. When psychology enters the door of a church, it becomes religious humanism, instead of the Holy Ghost possessed House of God. When social programs replace the prayer meeting, you have a community club instead of a rescue mission.

God will have a Bride unspotted and undefiled. She will not be a mixture of the world and the church. Our Heavenly Father is still possessing those who have been redeemed, called out, and established in His absolute Word. An admixture of religion is more deadly to the lost soul than the beer parlor.

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As for context, I didn't make the METROPOLIS film excerpt. Apparently, someone else enjoyed that as a stand-alone setpiece (which it is) and uploaded it onto Youtube. Decadently artistic. The very opening of that clip looks like something out of an Art Deco print by Erte.

METROPOLIS scores very high marks artistically, but not morally. I'd say the same of F. W. Murnau's FAUST (1928). Very dark film with some religious imagery: the four horsemen of the Apocalypse at the beginning, then a long haired knight with wings and a sword drawn - he's supposed to be an angel - then a demon over a city - the inspiration for the "Night on Bald Mountain" sequence in Disney's "Fantasia." Then Faust sells his soul to the devil, and I'm sure you know the rest of the story. It's on Youtube.

I'm reminded of what our Lord speaks to us through 1 John 2:15: "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him."

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Does the Harry Potter Series have a Christian Foundation?

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